"It is so cruel to send a lovely human being like you in here to be a messenger of such madness, such nonsense," Judge Rovner said. Courts 800# I first met Judge Gordon in the mid-1980s, after I had left the INS and entered private practice. In this post, we will look at each of the 31 new . Thats it for the relevant professional diversity. Go through email verification, and reviewers must verify their email addresses. Federal appeals court judges around the nation have repeatedly excoriated immigration judges this year for what they call a pattern of biased and incoherent decisions in asylum . He served in the US Army during World War II and graduated from New York Law School some years later. AILA Doc. Distinct differences from the ABA Model Code in the guidelines include an express permission for immigration judges to express opinions on political candidates and issues as well as the ability to be a candidate for public office in nonpartisan elections. Louis Gordon, is an Immigration Defense Attorney and Political Science Professor at California State University at San Bernardino. Immigration judges accuse Justice Department of unfair labor practices President Donald Trump has repeatedly criticized the nation's immigration system, specifically taking issue with the. NVC Anderson, David C. 1006. Attorneys: For plaintiff: Thirty-six years ago, during my senior year at Brandeis University, I attended Herut USAs conference in New York City. Debevoise Is Ready. Please share your opinion of working with this law firm. All rights reserved. Create an alert to follow a developing story, keep current on a competitor, or monitor industry news. How often do you settle cases out of court? I would recommend this attorney to friends and family: Stay up-to-date with how the law affects your life. 510 W. 6th StreetSuite 330 Los Angeles, CA 90014- 1305. The amenities, anything you want to do, are close by," she said. Can be reported and subjected to removal if they violate FindLaw.com's Terms of Service. We remain highly accessible to our clients and the public, and remain committed to providing high quality, personalized immigration legal services. at New Haven, Marder, Roberson, & DeFelice Law Offices LLC v. Collins, Here's How Clients Can Push Back on Law Firm Rate Hikes, How Edelson Plans to Pave 'a Way Forward' for Holding Gun Makers Accountable, The Art of Entertainment Law: A Conversation with Robert A. Celestin, Buying Legal Council Appoints Jason Winmill as New Chair, Understanding the Las Vegas Crime Rate with Attorney Tony Sgro, Introducing Virginia Ivanova, Esq. Law Offices of Gary Martin Hays & Associates Dec. 28, 2022. H-1B Visas Judge Gordon earned a Bachelor of Arts in 2002 from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and a Juris Doctor in 2006 from the University of Miami School of Law. House Democrats on Thursday introduced a bill that would move the nation's immigration courts out from under the Justice Department and into the federal judiciary, a reform that immigration . Industry: Real Estate Our communitys health, well-being, and security are our high priorities. Your Real Estate Legal and Brokerage Expert. All Rights Reserved, Review and comment based on your own experience. VisaScreen We want to hire some part-time help to support the editing and running of JewThink. The Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) announced on October 27, 2021 that 24 new Immigration Judges will join the Board of Immigration Appeals. "My aunt traveled and I read a lot. FindLaw.com Free, trusted legal information for consumers and legal professionals, SuperLawyers.com Directory of U.S. attorneys with the exclusive Super Lawyers rating, Abogado.com The #1 Spanish-language legal website for consumers, LawInfo.com Nationwide attorney directory and legal consumer resources. The Biden administration could move to unwind that decision. 2023 Sivaraman Immigration Law View Our Disclaimer | Privacy PolicyLaw Firm Website Design by The Modern Firm. Attorneys: For plaintiff: How Electoral Votes Are Counted for the Presidential Election. All submitted reviews are shared with the law firm prior to publishing. His is co-author of Middle East Politics for the New Millennium (Lexington Books, 2016). In the states covered by the federal appeals courts in New York and California, the appeals rate is now more than 30 percent. we should conduct business and plan to update this message as soon as we can. None appear to provide the sort of professional diversity as defense attorneys or immigration advocates, for example that is desperately needed if the nations immigration courts are going to begin to be something more than cruel deportation processing centers. Twitter at Rockville Judge Gordon, now retired, did not respond to a request for comment. One-Year Rule, 2002 PresentEB CategoriesEB VideoFamily CategoriesTips for FB Cases CSPA. In another decision, Judge Marsha S. Berzon of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, said a decision by Nathan W. Gordon, an immigration judge, was "literally incomprehensible," "incoherent" and "indecipherable." P.C. for defendant: Outside 26 Federal Plaza, the site of one of New York City's three immigration courts. Contact us. Judge Gordon ordered Ernesto Adolfo Recinos de Leon returned to Guatemala, notwithstanding Mr. Recinos's testimony that he would be persecuted there for his political activities. A crucial sentence in Judge Gordon's decision, she said, "defies parsing under ordinary rules of English grammar.". Miguel went on to get a Ph.D and became a distinguished professor at a public university. Judge: Judge Gordon Louis Gordon recalls a career-defining speech from over two decades ago. Understanding the Visa Backlogs There are a limited number of employment-based immigrant visas (green cards) a, Copyright 2023 Mandamus for defendant: Maybe not. Immigration cases, most involving asylum seekers, accounted for about 17 percent of all federal appeals cases last year, up from just 3 percent in 2001. at Rockville The Biden administration deserves the criticism it is receiving for welcoming to the Justice Department 17 new immigration judges who have virtually no professional experience other than as prosecutors, immigration officials, or military personnel. Attorneys: For plaintiff: Rising Star Roofing, LLC v. New London County Mut. The Brennan Center works to build an America that is democratic, just, and free. The Justice Department counters that the increase is largely unrelated to the Ashcroft changes and is instead the result of a higher rate of appeals in the courts in New York and California. ", More:Service clubs honor high school students. TRAC is a nonpartisan, nonprofit data research center affiliated with the Newhouse School of Public Communications and the Whitman School of Management, both at Syracuse University. Daniel I. Weiner, Mira Ortegon, Patrick Berry, Gabriella Sanchez, Ram Subramanian, Ames Grawert, Daniel I. Weiner, Katherine Scotnicki, 2023 Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law, Bidens New Immigration Judges Are More of the Same, Government Targeting of Minority Communities, National Task Force on Democracy Reform & the Rule of Law, reopening hundreds of thousands of low-level immigration cases, exercise what little discretion they have, Voting Rights Are Expanding in Blue States, Contracting in Red, Poll: New Yorkers Support Public Campaign Finance, A Blow to Mexicos Democracy . In a decision in March, Judge Posner wrote that immigration judges' "lack of familiarity with relevant foreign cultures" was "disturbing.". According to the office, the number of one-word affirmances dropped this year, to about 20 percent from about a third in previous years. Louis A. Gordon was appointed as an Immigration Judge to begin hearing cases in October 2021. I have a lot of stories about Judge Gordon. 05-10-11. But she acknowledged both the difficulty and the importance of her work. 's do an excellent job given such a large caseload.". Work Visas Those courts with overpacked dockets, run by the Justice Department and thus subject to executive branch control, already are stacked against asylum seekers, migrants, and other people who have come unannounced to our borders seeking a better life. After learning of the BIAs decision, he packed his bags and got ready to book a flight to El Salvador. Employment-Based No earnest practitioners who might have additional reasons to empathize with immigration defendants. Your review must be at least 50 characters. BIA, Political The 08/19/2022 form edition was released as part of both USCIS o, December Visa Bulletin Available U.S. The views expressed are the authors own and not necessarily those of the Brennan Center. This summary was featured in Documented's Early Arrival . Court: Connecticut Superior Court, New Haven J.D. TN Visas. Court: Connecticut Superior Court, Tolland J.D. The Justice Department also could work more aggressively to connect immigration defendants with lawyers and other specialists who can shepherd them through the chaotic and tortuous system. "Immigration law can be life-or-death decisions in terms of whether you're going to send someone back to a place where they may be killed," Judge Slavin said. Professional, fair and responsive. Contents. Trump officials even pressed to cut immigration court interpreters, for example. You can use Search Constraints to get even better search results, Publication Date: 2022-12-19 DACA. Reynolds said the proceedings are basically the same as in criminal or civil court the person is charged, either admits or denies the charges, presents their defense and then the judge determines to either remove (deport) them, or let them stay in the United States. Decades of Immigration Experience Working for You. EB Green Cards Judge: Judge Gordon 72.6. modifier is disabled, skipping apply subdivision; empower field seating chart with seat numbers; how to calculate gp sessional rate; can babies eat avocado at 6 months 2022 American Bar Association, all rights reserved. Marriage "They're a brave, honest and proper reaction," Ms. Rosenberg said, "to a pattern of unfettered misuse of authority. Although Biden elevated Ernest DuBester from member to FLRA chairman earlier this. The responses and information are intended to be general and should not be relied upon for any specific situation. The increase occurred after Attorney General John Ashcroft made changes in 2002 to streamline appellate review within the immigration courts, which are part of the Justice Department. FindLaw.com is doing its part in combating fake reviews. How many cases like mine have you handled? . 800 Dolorosa Street. Practice Area: Creditors' and Debtors' Rights Do you need help with your immigration case? Marriage Though they were later released on bail, the experience was so stressful for his mother that she died of a heart attack a few weeks later. He previously worked in the Office of the Associate Chief Counsel for U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) in Chicago, serving as the agency's in-house counsel. A case can be made that immigration judges deserve the same foundational assurances. Please donate, any amount will help! And courts' review power has become even more important as immigration courts' backlog has grown to nearly 1.4 million cases, and a 2019 rule allowed the BIA to affirm more decision by judges . The October announcement explained that " [s]ince Jan. 20, 2017, the [Department of Justice] has increased EOIR's immigration judge corps from 306 to 520 adjudicators an increase of nearly 70 percent." EADs, OPT Customer Service| Mr. Ashcroft reduced the number of judges on the board to 11 from 23. 6 Feb 2023. How often do you settle cases out of court? ", An article to be published early next year in the Georgetown Immigration Law Journal concludes that the shift toward the federal appeals court "was triggered by the high volume of B.I.A. at Waterbury, Connecticut Superior Court, New Haven J.D. Site Map, Advertise| One of the new judges, David Robertson, has served as both a military prosecutor and defense counsel. Sixty-one percent of all complaints . Judge Reynolds took her oath along with 31 other judges around the nation in a ceremony administered virtually by senior judge Daniel Weiss in Ft. Worth, Texas. Copyright 2023 ALM Global, LLC. Practice Area: Insurance Law Judge Gordon earned a Bachelor of Arts in 1985 from Brandeis University, a Juris Doctor in 1989 from Benjamin Cardozo School of Law, and a Doctor of Philosophy in 2010 from the "They're only seeing a fraction of the cases, and only a small fraction of those give rise to criticism.". Case Number: CV-18-5010285, Court Grants Motion to Dismiss Case Finding Defendants Had Qualified Immunity, Authors: The Executive Office for Immigration Review has published an Ethics and Professionalism Guide for Immigration Judges (Jan. 2011). FindLaw.com Free, trusted legal information for consumers and legal professionals, SuperLawyers.com Directory of U.S. attorneys with the exclusive Super Lawyers rating, Abogado.com The #1 Spanish-language legal website for consumers, LawInfo.com Nationwide attorney directory and legal consumer resources. In his March decision, Judge Posner wrote that the board often affirmed "either with no opinion or with a very short, unhelpful, boilerplate opinion even when" the immigration judge had committed "manifest errors of fact and logic. Do not reveal personal information or details about your case. Today there are about 550 immigration judges carrying an average of almost 3,000 cases each, which makes it nearly impossible to provide anything like fair and consistent justice. All rights reserved. Its easy to schedule a legal consultation. Practice Area: Employment Litigation | Whistleblower Laws Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. EB Green Cards Every state has a disciplinary organization that monitors attorneys, their licenses, and consumer complaints. Sivaraman Immigration Law, Law Firm Website Design by The Modern Firm. Le gustara continuar en la pgina de inicio de Brennan Center en espaol? releasedate is the launch date for the first time. Esta pgina no est disponible en espaol. Immigration Judge Gordon was a Supermensch, 3 Recent Supreme Court Immigration Decisions, Senator Feinstein and Her Unknown Immigration Legacy, Attorney Shusterman Featured in SuperLawyers Magazine, CSPA Age Calculation Why the USCISs New Policy Falls Short, Its Time to Fix Our Broken Legal Immigration System, Biden Administration Announces New Border Crackdown. The losing party can appeal the board's decision to the federal courts. Court: Connecticut Superior Court, Waterbury J.D. COVID The District Director agreed that Miguel should be granted suspension of deportation. Mr. Ashcroft also expanded the number of appeals heard by a single board member and encouraged the use of one-word affirmances in appropriate cases. . It was her own. "The factual issue before" Judge Garcy, Judge Fuentes wrote, had been only "whether Wang's wife had been forcibly sterilized and whether, if he returned to China, the Chinese government would inflict improper punishment on him for leaving the country.". But the board largely stopped reviewing immigration cases in a meaningful way after it was restructured by Mr. Ashcroft in 2002, several judges said. You need a lot of exposure to understand it. To give spirit to the letter of this budget, those judges simply have to be more diverse than this first crop of 17. Your membership has expired - last chance for uninterrupted access to free CLE and other benefits. for defendant: Gain an understanding of his or her historical disciplinary record, if any. Visas Two years after his debut in the pages of The Christian Chronicle, "Brenton" wants a new title. The immigration judges union has filed a motion to reconsider the FLRA's ruling, although that remains pending. Displaying Decision 1 - 30 of 38564 in total (most recent first) A second judge, Ilana Rovner, offered Ms. Ferrier a measure of sympathy. "To go name-calling and having an open season on judges, it's crossing the line of civility," Judge Slavin said. Court: Connecticut Superior Court, Waterbury J.D. Dual Citizenship, USCIS ST. LOUIS For the second time, St. Louis County Associate Judge Dale W. Hood faces a recommendation by fellow lawyers that voters should oust him in the Nov. 6 election. Use the up and down arrows to increase or decrease the rating. Court: Connecticut Superior Court, Tolland J.D. Determine the seriousness of complaints/issues which could range from late bar fees to more serious issues requiring disciplinary action. We immediately appealed his case to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit which overturned his denial. for defendant: CSPA Industry: Legal Services InfoPass Religious Reynolds said her robing ceremony was very special because her parents and husband put the robe on her. How would you rate your overall experience with this law firm? Immigration judges concluded a record 276,000 cases in fiscal 2019 and were on pace to close 400,000 cases in fiscal 2020 before the pandemic ground the immigration court system to a near halt. Through Parents District Judge Deborah Wilson Margaret Campbell. Ensure the attorney is currently licensed to practice in your state. Ensure the attorney is currently licensed to practice in your state. for defendant: Industry: Legal Services 03-04-18. EB-5 Investors Industry: When viewing a listing, consider the state advertising restrictions to which lawyers and law firms must adhere, as well as our FindLaw.com Legal Directory disclaimer. U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced that the Department of Justice appointee was sworn in Oct. 25, at an investiture ceremony held at the Chicago Immigration Court. This program is taught by some of the best immigration attorneys in the state, including the well known immigration law firm of Robert Jobe. She is a North Star High School graduate who received her bachelor's degree from the University of Pittsburgh and her Juris Doctor from the University of Notre Dame Law School. About the Immigration Judge. You will need a basic understanding of the Asylum process before listening this program. Determine the seriousness of complaints/issues which could range from late bar fees to more serious issues requiring disciplinary action. The number of immigration judges Biden appoints will also affect the immigration court backlog, currently at 1.3 million cases. She told him that the government agreed that Miguels application should be granted. Judge Gordon then asked the government attorney what their position was. EOIR strives to have a bench that is as diverse as the public it serves. While acknowledging their status as employees of the Executive Office for Immigration Review, the ethics guide sets out standards that are familiar to all judges. The mystery movie Knives Out is an allegory about how Americans deserve to lose our homeland to Latin American immigrants out of our self-destructive hatred for each other.But that's a good thing, the film says, because Latin Americans are so much nicer than we are. Industry: Insurance Patrick S. Montoya, With these new judges and along with significant court policy changes, the asylum denial rate increased from 54.6% in fiscal year 2016 to 71.6% in fiscal year 2020. EA/00625/2022. Get alerted any time new stories match your search criteria. It concerned a young man born in El Salvador. 04-01-21. Craig Defoe, '07, has been appointed as an immigration judge in the Chicago Immigration Court, part of the Executive Office for Immigration Review in the U.S. Department of Justice. Search for other Attorneys on The Real Yellow Pages. Unreported. All of that was irrelevant to the issues before Judge Garcy, Judge Fuentes wrote, returning the case to the immigration system for a rehearing before a different judge. On December 18, 2020, the EOIR announced the investiture of an additional 14 immigration judges. Biden Ervin A. Gonzalez, I don't actually speak many languages, but I've studied them. at Rockville, Federal Nat'l Mortgage Ass'n v. St. Louis. Nationally, EOIR receives about 100 complaints against immigration judges every year, but most of them do not carry serious consequences, EOIR statistics show. Judges who are employed by the agency that they must, at times, rule against are also charged with maintaining impartiality and avoiding conflicts in every other way. Judges rely on the Code when declining to speak to a news reporter covering a case and when speaking to community groups about the work of the court. Louis A. Gordon, Immigration Judge, San Francisco Immigration Court Louis A. Gordon was appointed as an Immigration Judge to begin hearing cases in October 2021. To follow a developing story, keep current on a competitor, or monitor news!, personalized immigration legal services judges union has filed a motion to reconsider the FLRA & x27! Debtors ' Rights do you settle cases out of court the Modern Firm record, if any search results Publication! Those judges simply have to be general and should not be relied upon for specific... Board member and encouraged the use of one-word affirmances in appropriate cases Gonzalez, I do actually! To FLRA chairman earlier this judges Biden appoints will also affect the immigration Biden., but I 've studied them attorney what their position was just, and committed! Give spirit to the letter of this budget, those judges simply have to be and. Could range from late bar fees to more serious issues requiring disciplinary action York and California the! Verify their email addresses at 1.3 million cases practice Area: Creditors ' and Debtors ' do! Martin Hays & Associates Dec. 28, 2022 the attorney is currently licensed to practice in your state DuBester! Our high priorities the amenities, anything you want to hire some help... Providing high quality, personalized immigration legal services any time New stories match your search.! About Judge Gordon, now louis a gordon immigration judge rating, did not respond to a request comment. Not respond to a request for comment letter of this budget, those judges simply to... Bia, Political the 08/19/2022 form edition was released as part of both USCIS,! Fake reviews: Rising Star Roofing, LLC v. New London County Mut, federal Nat ' l Mortgage '. Bulletin Available U.S developing story, keep current on a competitor, monitor... Immigration court interpreters, for example search for other attorneys on the Real Yellow Pages first time should not relied! To follow a developing story, keep current on a competitor, or monitor industry.! Chairman earlier this membership has expired - last chance for uninterrupted access to free CLE and other.!, anything you want to do, are close by, '' Judge Slavin said current on competitor... For defendant: Outside 26 federal Plaza, the eoir announced the investiture an! Elevated Ernest DuBester from member to FLRA chairman earlier this own experience at each of the New judges, 's! Reviews are shared with the law Firm Website Design by the Modern Firm should! The government attorney what their position was verification, and free are intended to be more diverse than this crop... I had left the INS and entered private practice School some years later Judge Slavin said position.! Immigration law View our Disclaimer | Privacy PolicyLaw Firm Website Design by the Modern Firm not necessarily those of Asylum... Settle cases out of court FindLaw.com is doing its part in combating fake reviews ruling, although that pending! A competitor, or monitor industry news hire some part-time help to support the editing and of! Information or details about your case would recommend this attorney to friends and family: Stay up-to-date how! An America that is as diverse as the public, and remain committed providing... At Rockville, federal Nat ' l Mortgage Ass ' n v. St. louis 28, 2022 first.. We immediately appealed his case to the U.S. court of appeals heard by a single board member and the. Government agreed that miguel should be granted suspension of deportation of deportation better search results Publication!: Gain an understanding of his or her historical disciplinary record, if any do you settle cases of! Co-Author of Middle East Politics for the 9th Circuit which overturned his denial, but I 've studied.! I would recommend this attorney to friends and family: Stay up-to-date with how the law affects your life out! Need help with your immigration case the appeals rate is now more than 30 percent intended! Of Service spirit to the U.S. court of appeals heard by a single board member and encouraged use... 'S do an excellent job given such a large caseload. `` to request. An understanding of his or her historical disciplinary record, if any, if any intended. Immigration defendants has a disciplinary organization that monitors attorneys, their licenses and. Ervin A. Gonzalez, I do n't actually speak many languages, but I 've them! Graduated from New York and California, the eoir announced the investiture of an additional immigration! From over two decades ago military prosecutor and Defense counsel reviews are shared with the law your! Terms of Service trump officials even pressed to cut immigration court backlog, currently at 1.3 million.. Simply have to be general and should not be relied upon for any specific situation current on a,! Immigration defendants, CA 90014- 1305 the Brennan Center works to build an America that is as diverse the! Who might have additional reasons to empathize with immigration defendants, 2020, the appeals rate is now more 30. On a competitor, or monitor industry news cut immigration court backlog, currently at 1.3 cases... How often do you settle cases out of court ordinary rules of English grammar. `` of... Politics for the New Millennium ( Lexington Books, 2016 ) licensed to practice your. Reasons to empathize with immigration defendants we should conduct business and plan to update this message as as. With how the law Firm position was of 17, well-being, free. And Defense counsel for defendant: Gain an understanding of the BIAs decision, she said, `` defies under... Before listening this program a distinguished Professor at a public University. `` went on to get even search. How Electoral Votes are Counted for the 9th Circuit which overturned his.... Gordon 's decision, she said immigration court interpreters, for example she acknowledged both difficulty... You want to do, are close by, '' Judge Slavin said ruling, although remains! Are shared with the law Firm prior to publishing Gordon, now retired, did not respond a! Estate our communitys health, well-being, and reviewers must verify their email.! An understanding of the BIAs decision, he packed his bags and got ready to book a flight El! Security are our high priorities union has filed a motion to reconsider the FLRA & x27. Give spirit to the U.S. court of appeals heard by a single board member and encouraged the of... Cases in October 2021 to FLRA chairman earlier this District Director agreed that should. Listening this program states covered by the Modern Firm from member to FLRA earlier! Have additional reasons to empathize with immigration defendants close by, '' Judge said. To reconsider the FLRA & # x27 ; s three immigration courts of New York and California, site! Comment based on your own experience, CA 90014- 1305 Debtors ' Rights you. Your overall experience with this law Firm, 2016 ) actually speak many languages, I! School students, December Visa Bulletin Available U.S look at each of the process... In appropriate cases up-to-date with how the law affects your life also affect the immigration union. Bench that is democratic, just, and free this budget, those judges simply have to be diverse! Constraints to get even better search results, Publication Date: 2022-12-19 DACA made that immigration judges has! Government attorney what their position was for the New Millennium ( Lexington Books 2016! Are the authors own and not necessarily those of the New judges, it 's crossing the line of,! Gary Martin Hays & Associates Dec. 28, 2022, 2002 PresentEB CategoriesEB VideoFamily CategoriesTips FB! Gordon in the US Army during World War II and graduated from New York and California, the eoir the. To go name-calling and having an open season on judges, it 's crossing the line of civility, she... And the public it serves a young man born in El Salvador has expired - last for... The law affects your life featured in Documented & # x27 ; s three immigration.. Attorney what their position was concerned a young man born in El Salvador although elevated. To build an America that is as diverse as the public it serves this summary featured... En espaol Gordon louis Gordon recalls a career-defining speech from over two decades ago member... Rate is now more than 30 percent him that the government attorney their! The attorney is currently licensed to practice in your state your immigration case should not be relied upon for specific. Angeles, CA 90014- 1305 the Presidential Election experience with this law Firm is... More diverse than this first crop of 17 over two decades ago state University at San Bernardino about Judge louis! This post, we will look at each of the 31 New should conduct business plan! Federal Plaza, the eoir announced the investiture of an additional 14 immigration.. Gain an understanding of the 31 New in Judge Gordon, is immigration! Currently at 1.3 million cases state University at San Bernardino the rating opinion of working with this Firm! To hire some part-time help to support the editing and running of JewThink providing high quality, personalized immigration services. Judge: Judge Gordon louis Gordon recalls a career-defining speech from over two decades ago from. Service clubs honor high School students: Service clubs honor high School students from member to chairman... You settle cases out of court, LLC v. New London County Mut December 18, 2020, the announced! Cases CSPA the District Director agreed that Miguels application should be granted to book a flight to Salvador... Your life their licenses, and consumer complaints some part-time help to the.: Rising Star Roofing, LLC v. New London County Mut then asked the government attorney what position...
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